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γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

gamma3, gamma24 (plug-in for the γ3)

Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby daniele86 » January 25th, 2017, 2:47 am

daniele86 wrote:
- Measure the voltage at γ3 U17 pin 4. It should be 3.3V when playing 44.1KHz (or multiple of that) program material, or 0V when playing 48KHz (or multiple). If that's true, then U17 is good.

It's a bit difficult to check because is under z1 module. I'm going to put a wire for check this, I have some doubt about U17, because I have prototype board and I made a (bad??) bridge between U17 pin4 and X1 pin1.


Checked! The U17 pin 4 work like above..I need an oscilloscope!

So the last things are U18, X1, X2 and z1 module, isn't it?

I haven't an oscilloscope, and don't think to buy it in the near future; so I'm going to replace U18, and I cross my finger!
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby daniele86 » January 25th, 2017, 3:21 am

amb wrote:
daniele86 wrote:A week ago I reflowed some parts, but stupidly I forgotten which ones. :roll: After that, the dac work worst than before.

If the behavior changes with the reflow, then the reflow had changed something. Hopefully not damaged from overheating...


Which components are more sensible to overheating?

I see another thing, I didn't isolate the IG with G ground, because the rca and other connectors aren't totally isolate from chassis, Could this make some problems?
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby amb » January 25th, 2017, 3:34 am

daniele86 wrote:
amb wrote:
daniele86 wrote:A week ago I reflowed some parts, but stupidly I forgotten which ones. :roll: After that, the dac work worst than before.

If the behavior changes with the reflow, then the reflow had changed something. Hopefully not damaged from overheating...


Which components are more sensible to overheating?

Mostly the ICs, but other parts are not immune.

I see another thing, I didn't isolate the IG with G ground, because the rca and other connectors aren't totally isolate from chassis, Could this make some problems?

Are you using non-isolated jacks on the rear panel? That would defeat γ3's galvanic isolation feature. But it shouldn't make the system "not work".
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby daniele86 » January 25th, 2017, 4:47 am

amb wrote:
daniele86 wrote:Which components are more sensible to overheating?

Mostly the ICs, but other parts are not immune.


I set the solder station at 330° celsius, I think I didn't burned nothing. The test that I did before means that U10, U17, U17, Q1, Q2 are good? Now I changed U18 and the problem persist.

amb wrote:
daniele86 wrote:I see another thing, I didn't isolate the IG with G ground, because the rca and other connectors aren't totally isolate from chassis, Could this make some problems?

Are you using non-isolated jacks on the rear panel? That would defeat γ3's galvanic isolation feature. But it shouldn't make the system "not work".


Yes it is

I have the WaveIO usb to i2s board, I can make some test connecting i2s signal to some y3 points? I see this possibility in the final version of y3 board..
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby amb » January 25th, 2017, 10:57 am

Yes, there is a way to connect an external I2S source (master) to the γ3. On the prototype v1.0 board, use the Z_SDATA, Z_SCLK and Z_LRCK pins of the ζ1 board connector (after removing the ζ1).

Depending on the logic level of your I2S source (3.3V or 5V), you'll need to connect that voltage (i.e., from its supply rail) to the ZVDD_3V3b pin.

You also need to connect the source ground to G.

On the v1.01 production board, these signals are available on its own optional connector beneath the ζ1.
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby daniele86 » January 25th, 2017, 12:29 pm

amb wrote:Yes, there is a way to connect an external I2S source (master) to the γ3. On the prototype v1.0 board, use the Z_SDATA, Z_SCLK and Z_LRCK pins of the ζ1 board connector (after removing the ζ1).

Depending on the logic level of your I2S source (3.3V or 5V), you'll need to connect that voltage (i.e., from its supply rail) to the ZVDD_3V3b pin.

You also need to connect the source ground to G.

On the v1.01 production board, these signals are available on its own optional connector beneath the ζ1.


Ok, thanks!
I've the prototype board.. so this is the waveIO datasheet: http://www.luckit.biz/downloads/WaveIO%20Infos.pdf

Only to be sure before destroy something:

DT = I2S Data, connected to Z_SDATA
LR = I2S Word Clock, connected to Z_LRCK
BC = I2S Bit Clock, connected to Z_SCLK
V+ connected to pin 3 of z1 module (ZVDD_3V3b pin)
Isol. GND connected to G of y3 board

IL715 works with both 5 and 3,3V so it's ok.

Than if the dac work with waveIO board we are sure that the problem is under Z1 module?!
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γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby amb » January 25th, 2017, 5:26 pm

Yes. Or possibly a bad ζ1 module.
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby daniele86 » January 26th, 2017, 12:34 am

amb wrote:Yes, there is a way to connect an external I2S source (master) to the γ3. On the prototype v1.0 board, use the Z_SDATA, Z_SCLK and Z_LRCK pins of the ζ1 board connector (after removing the ζ1).

Depending on the logic level of your I2S source (3.3V or 5V), you'll need to connect that voltage (i.e., from its supply rail) to the ZVDD_3V3b pin.

You also need to connect the source ground to G.

On the v1.01 production board, these signals are available on its own optional connector beneath the ζ1.


Sorry, but i connected the waveIO board to y3 pins (like I wrote above) and there is no signal from WaveIO. I see there is no voltage on pin 2 of z1 module so no voltage on pin V+ of waveIO so no output from IL715; that is correct from datasheet:
"Attention: There will be NO signals at J5 pin-header connector (Isolated I2S Outputs) if there's no voltage applied on the V+ and Isolated-GND pins (usually 3.3V but 5V is also accepted - please see IL715 datasheet for more information). "

Is correct connect V+ to ZVDD_3V3b pin? I think the correct is to connect it to a ZVDD_3V3a pin..
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby daniele86 » January 26th, 2017, 1:09 am

Ok pin V+ of waveIO require 3,3V for IL715, pin 2 of z1 need 3,3V to work (for U15, if I able to read y3 pcb layout).

Because of IL715 is an isolator, I think I can connect 3,3V of y3 (ZVDD_3V3a pin) to the pin 2 of z1 module and this pin to V+ of IL715, so I supply the IL715 isolator of waveIO and U15 of y3. is it right?
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Re: γ3 - Strange problem after 1 year of work

Postby amb » January 26th, 2017, 2:09 am

The WaveIO has two sets of I2S outputs. One is unisolated, the other is isolated onboard (with the IL715). Since the γ3 has its own isolator (U15), you have two options:

1. Use the unisolated I2S output from the WaveIO and connect to the γ3. The advantage is only one isolator in the I2S chain and potentially less jitter, the disadvantage is you'll need to use uBNC connectors on the WaveIO board for these.

2. Use the isolated output from the WaveIO to the γ3. This will have two isolators in series for the I2S signal, but you could use regular pin receptacles on the WaveIO.

The isolators on both boards need to have a supply voltage in order to work. There are two power supply pins on each isolator chip, one on the input side, and one on the output side. These nor only provides true isolation but also allows the isolator to serve as a logic level translator.

For case #1, it is unclear from the WaveIO documentation what the unisolated I2S output logic level is, and therefore it is not known what you should connect to γ3's ZVDD_3V3b pin. If you have an oscilloscopr and could determine the logic level, and if it's 3.3V, then you could use a 3.3V source from the WaveIO board, or use ZVDD_3V3a on the γ3 to connect to ZVDD_3V3b.

For case #2, on the WaveIO board, the input side of its IL715 is internally powered, you choose the output logic level by connecting an appropriate supply voltage to the V+ pin at J6 (3.3V or 5V).

For U15 on the γ3, its input side needs to have an appropriate supply voltage at the ZVDD_3V3b line to match the logic level of the incoming I2S data stream (from WaveIO). The output side is internally powered on the γ3 (VREF).

You can use a 3.3V source on the WaveIO board for this, or use the ZVDD_3V3a line on the γ3 board. Connect this to the WaveIO's V+ line and γ3's ZVDD_3V3b. This sets the logic level to 3.3V between the isolated I2S output of the WaveIO and the isolated I2S input on the γ3.
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